Watch Out, Clubschadenfreude!!!

Not KJV only, sadly. And universe may not be expanding if red shift not caused by resention. (See CSS Part 7a.) Universe not eternal and not a big bang (see my paper at: God bless.


16 thoughts on “Watch Out, Clubschadenfreude!!!

  1. Just as a point of clarification… evolution and the origins of the universe have nothing to do with each other. (For that matter, Genesis and the origins of the universe have nothing to do with each other either)

    1. Mr. Hanna – do you know anything about mathematics and statistics? I love them because they are observable, repeatable, and the purest science. They also prove that the first three chapters are quite true and accurate. If just one statement from those three chapters is true, that means they are all true, because they are inter-related.

      These men are nerds extraordinaire – so no quips about their clothing please!

      1. Why does everything have to be accurate if one is? Could it not be easily said that everything is false if one portion is, on the basis of their interconnectedness?

        To be fair, I am not arguing that the first three chapters are false, only that they have nothing to do with human origins.

      2. The Bible describes “human origins” plainly (see vv below). They are interrelated and God is the common thread. If God did anyone of those things described in Genesis and recorded it for us in this book, then it does naturally and logically follow that each of those things would have happened for it would be God’s true and (key) uncorruptable word.
        And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:26-27)
        And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (Matt. 19:4)
        Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Psalm 119:160)
        Why and how do you deny the clear teaching of scripture? Do you believe that what you have been shown as evidence for evolutionism is science? Do you thing that there is a happy compromist at which the Holy Bible and evolutionism can meet (gap theory, theistic evolution, etc.) If I were you I’d watch the CSS by Dr. Hovind on my “The ARMORY”. (Please don’t belly ache about his degree from a Christian Collage or his “arrest” which we have dealt with before, are entirely irrelivant and which latter I have included a paper about right next to the videos. Please consider watching them; your eyes will fly open at the least.)
        I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (Revelation 3:18)

      3. The church has understood Genesis 1 as a metaphor from the very beginning. Trying to make it a scientific treatise in our modern age is an abandonment of Christian understanding, not a defense of it.

        And I don’t reject Hovind because of his arrest record or his lack of an accredited degree, I reject him because his information is patently false. I would just as easily reject anyone, pastor or scientist, who makes up factually inaccurate data to support an obviously obsurd conclusion.

      4. Honestly I have never heard of anyone that believed this in all the history of the biblical church. Besides, the Bible never treats it as “a metaphore”, but as the whole truth. Have you ever read the Holy Bible?
        What 2 pieces of information do you believe Dr. Hovind falsified? Or do you simply rreject what he says because he disagrees with National Geographic and your highschool science teacher?
        For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)

    2. Hello Sir,
      I’m back to answer your question.
      Evolution and universe origins are inseperable. Evolution describes the evolution of life from nonlife and “change over time” but so many other things. Evolution also describes the formation of stars from atoms and sub-parts, the evolution of chemicles and elements from basice to uranium and iron, etc., the evolution of earth as the “blue planet”, and others. Basicly there are seven types of evolution in all.
      Also remember: Evolution from non-matter to matter is not just “origins”. The entire evolutionary theory, billions of years and all, seeks to explain how things came about without divine intervention. So, when scientists try to explain the conditions of the “big bang” they try to explain where matter and even time and space came from (the cause of the result) and when they try to explain where mankind came from they (discounting the possibility of a creator) look for the justification of the naturalistic explatation, i.e., human evolution from “lower life forms”. Both naturalistic origins and evolution of stars, chemicles and humans seek to explain life and the universe as we find it. The big bang hypotesis is a part of the evolutionary belief system.
      The origins of the universe are recorded by the Bible and either it is a true account or it is not and if we cannot trust the first few verses of the word of God, how can we trust it for salvation or for any thing for that matter.
      In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)
      These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, (Genesis 2:4)
      God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)
      Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Psalm 119:160)

      1. A child once asked his mother, “Mommy, if God didn’t mean what He said, why didn’t he say what he ment?”
        Name me 2 Bible verses you use to support a figurative interpretation of the Bible or even just the Genesis account? If you cannot, I cannot believe you on this because your mind is not aligned with Scripture.
        And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. (Genesis 6:12)
        Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. (Hebrews 3:10)
        I will read your post sometime when I have time, being in college myself. I will be back tomorrow before 12:00 pm.
        I just got it! You don’t think the Bible is God’s word and you don’t think there is a God or a Lord Jesus Christ.
        Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (I John 2:22)

      2. Wait, because of the fact that I disagree with how you interpret scripture, I deny that Jesus is Lord or that God even exists? What?

        And I have pointed out EXTENSIVE passages already that support a figurative interpretation. You also interpret passages of scripture as metaphor. Do you believe that all of Jesus’ parables were literal? That God is a woman looking for a lost coin, or that the kingdom of heaven is really seed thrown about on the ground? Do you believe that when Jesus is called the Good Shepherd that He herds sheep, or that when the disciples are called Fishers of Men that they are setting fishhooks in people’s mouths?

        You also recognize metaphor in Scripture, not just me. The question is whether Genesis is to be read in the same way. Reading it as metaphor does not diminish the truth of God any more than reading the Psalms or the parables as metaphor does. To the ancient Israelites, the creation narrative WAS a parable.

        Also, I gave you a list of the most prominent church fathers who see Genesis as a metaphor earlier. Origen, for instance, who led church thought in the second century. St Augustine, in the fourth century, who was the most influential theologian in Christian history since Paul the Apostle. Martin Luther, who led the Protestant Reformation (all Protestant churches owe their heritage to him). John Calvin, the father of Calvinism (or Reformed theology) who was also a leading reformer (Baptists and Presbyterians owe their heritage to him). John Wesley, the Anglican Priest who is the father of Methodism, an integral part of the Great Awakening which established the widespread Christian heritage that America now benefits from (Methodists, Nazarenes, and Pentecostals all owe their heritage to him). The list goes on. These are all individuals in church history who taught Genesis 1 as a metaphor.

        The hyper-literalism of Scriptural interpretation is a modern development which came about in response to the rise of science as leading the search for truth. If science tells us what is true, the thought went, then surely we can treat Scripture as a scientific manual. The problem is, scripture was never written to be a scientific manual, and now that science and a literal understanding of certain Biblical passages collide, we are discovering that the attempt to make it that manual was the compromise with culture that abandoned Christian faithfulness, not the honest pursuit of understanding that I am suggesting.

        As a final note, just so you don’t start in with labeling me the antichrist again, I am a Christian. I love God. Jesus is my savior and my Lord. And the church that I pastor by the grace and call of God and under the appointment of the Florida Conference of the United Methodist Church would very quickly vouch for my fidelity as a child of God.

      3. I’m getting to your whole comment; I’ll be dealing with it in chunks. Often I find it inflates out of proportion with my tendancy to “wordy” responces.

        From your former pro-evolutionism/anti-6-day-creation comments I could find no indication that you are a Christian of that you believe the Bible in any respect. Simply: If you believe that evolution is true you believe the Bible is false, or you fall back on some kind of etherial net of “private interperetation.
        Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (II Peter 1:20)

        Sorry; I must have missed when you “pointed out EXTENSIVE passages” you use to perscribe a non-litteral interperetation of the word of God. You may be shocked to know, but every time the King James Bible (or any pure Bible, for that matter) speaks “figurativly”, or in figures, IT SAYS SO. None of your cited refferences support the interpretation of things the Bible speeks of as fact. Keep looking and justify your self. Watch out for the same type of things as you’ve already included. Parables are just that; they are always interpreted in the text:

        Shepherd: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:32) And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things. (Mark 16:34)

          The Woman’s 1 coin:

        And he spake this parable unto them, saying,…Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. (Luke 15:3, 8-10)

          The Parable of the Seed:

        And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;…And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given…Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side….(Matthew 13:3, 10-11, 18-19)

        The places where it is OBVIOUS that what is being spoken is not strictly litterat (God’s wings, fishers of men, light of the world, sword of the Spirit, leven of the Pharesees (hypocracy), etc.) it is relegated to the phrase. These are obvious to anyone reading there Bible. Oricle must not rely on opinion. Then WE are the Final Authority; I thought God was taller. 🙂

        It is mearly your obbinion that we should all interperate the Bible metaphoricly. You cannot call me a heretic (departing from Bible doctrine) because that is all your opinion will ever really be. But, if your private interpretation is not in allign with the clear teaching of the Bible, that is exactly where you have gone and what your name is. There is no indication of a figuritive Genesis record and much against:

        And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matthew 19:4)

        For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)

        For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old… (II Peter 3:5a)

      4. This is obviously going nowhere. Woody, interpretation is always private. Always. It is entirely impossible to divorce yourself from interpretation.

        You’re intentionally avoiding obvious logic and “clear” aspects of the Bible that undermine your position, and then resorting to ad hominems. So, I’m done.

      5. O.K. Bye. I’m avoiding nothing. I’m bringing lack of Bible support to light. Sometimes you just have to stand not discuss. Too many People only want to spread and express their own oppinions in stead of proclaim the truth. Will you never watch the CSS? I interperate only regarding prophecy. Elsewhere I believe the Bibel. If you like you can see the Hoggars stuff, too. An antichrist? Careful. I know not you’re saved. You know Timothy was a pastor. Listen to what God told him. I’d step down if you don’t believe the Bible is perfect.

        Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work. (II Tim. 2:19-21)

        O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. (I Tim. 6:20-21)

        Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (II Cor. 13:5)

      6. I really do not care about “ancient Israelites” and what those PAGANS thought about the Bible. Just to let you know, they are no where to be going for doctrine; if you want to learn how to worship Molech, they were an invaluable reference source.

        Origen can hardly be credited with “leading the church”, neither can Augustine. They both were very odd and anti-Bible. They both happened to believe that Jesus Christ the Lord was not God “manifest in the flesh” (II Tim. 3:16) Alexandria, Egypt, where was their haunt, is comparable to modern America and Sodom. They were no doubt old clergy, but by no means were they biblical or saved by faith in the blood of Christ. Herecy always starts in the class room. Satan first appears under the tree of knowledge and the common people heard Jesus Christ gladly. God don’t give a flip how smatr they were and I dont either, to be honest.

        Luther and Calvin were slightly odd (especially in their doctrines of predestination); again, I owe them nothing but respect. I need not fall in line every time a protestant (which I am not, being Anabaptist [Baptist]) heavy weight says the Bible’s not accurate and I need them to interperetate it for me. If the body of Christ don’t like it and if I can’t see it in the Bible, I must ignore it unless it is a visible herecy. Then I must fight for the right of Scripture. Find two verses that teach the figuritive interpretation of Genesis and other like histories in the Bible. You’ll never have done it, I believe.

        Hyper-literal may be modern, but that seems to describe a fringe of fundamentalism that very few take seriously. If you are talking about those of us that call them self “young-earth creationists” and “Bible believers” I’m afraid they have been around forver [almost litterally, excepting 5 days :)]; we have merely needed to be more vocal in this latter time and domain of apostacy.

        Of corse the Bible was not given by inspiration as a science textbook, however, it often toughes on the physical sciences (springs of the deep, seven stars, paths in the seas, etc.) and each time it must be right (that is in agreement with real truth, not necessarily alligned with the present scholarly opinion) in all counts, or (if in error once [if you cover your “Christian” tail end with whimsy interpretations of plain words written on tables (Hab. 2:2), your sorrily swimming in eather to the lazy “Bible defence” way out), IF IN ERROR ONCE, it is not the word of God or God’s a LIAR
        or IGNORANT. HERECY!
        In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus 1:2)
        Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he judgeth those that are high. (Job 21:22)
        Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him? (Job 36:22)

        Modern science (evolutionism alone) is at odds with the plain reading of Scripture. I’m sticking with the King James Bible, buddy! Your fancies are by no means honest. You simply compromise with some mush brained God-hater’s theory in ignorance. Tell me: What evidence for evolutionism do you think is at odds with the Bible (carbon dating, uranium dating, the uniplane solarsystem, the fossil reccord, Neandratal Man, the Miller expiriment, the age of the earth, benifitial mutations [which have all been shown to be at odds with reality, not only the Bible]).
        But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. (I Timothy 4:7)
        And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (II Tim 4:4)
        There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD. (Proverbs 21:30)
        O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: (I Tim. 6:20)

  2. Mr. Hanna – so what exactly are you saying? That this is not a true statement? That the “evening and the morning” were not literal 24 hour days?

    26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created He them. Gen. 1:26-27

    That is the origin of man. Is Jesus Christ a liar when He references the writings concerning the creation of man? As a divinity student, do you recognize Jesus Christ as the Creator as written?

    Matthew 19:3-5

    King James Version (KJV)

    3 The Pharisees also came unto Him, tempting him, and saying unto Him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

    4 And He answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    Without scientific assumptions, the gap theory and day-age theory have no ground to stand on. Millions of years is a scientific assumption that has been treated as dogma. It is completely circular logic to use rocks or strata to date fossils, and fossils to date rocks. Which came first? Empirical science is limited to that which can be tested, reproduced, and falsified.

    John 1:1-4

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

    4 In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s