Methodist “pastors” are starting to get a reputation in my mind from my and Kent Hovind’s experiences. If you know different, please indicate it in the comment section. (see a ton of such Boards at RYFTKOHIAH’s Pictures)


13 thoughts on “psalm-23-9.jpg

    1. Bible believer. Perticularly Baptist (Anabaptist). You should at least believe that God came to die for your sins so you could be freed from hell by faith.

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      He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. (Hebrews 10:28-37)

      1. There is a God. 🙂 Careful, you’re about to bump into our Creator and Savior! Here’s your answer from the Bible:

        Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:…And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:41-46)

        For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod. And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it. For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it. (Isaiah 30:31-33; NOTE: the Assyrian is a type of the son of perdition, the Antichrist)

        And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10-15)

        He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

  1. “There is a God.”

    Interestingly, I didn’t say there isn’t. At least, not in this thread. 😉

    But how do you know? You do realize that continuing to cite the Bible as evidence of the Bible’s “truths” is a paramount example of circular reasoning. Right?

    “The Bible is the Word of God”

    Says who?


    Where does He say that?

    “The Bible.”


    1. I think you missed how I ended up answering this a long time ago when you asked this:

      Do you see the problem of circular reasoning in evolutionism (rocks to date fossils and fossils to date rocklayers)? Remember: science is progressive and does not posess a final authoritative quality whatsoever. Many other things that do not have a authority where “the buck stops” cannot use “circular reasoning”. However, in relationships similar to the one between the U.S. government and the U.S. Constitution, reasoning in a circle may be used (amendments become that “final authority” once passed, too). Example:
      1-”Why not go against the Constitution here? It’s convenient.”
      2-”No matter how convenient it would be for you, we cannot disobey the Constitution. That would be wrong.”
      1-”Why would that be so ‘wrong’?”
      2-”Because the constitution says we cannot go against it!”
      Once I accept the Bible as “my final authority in all matters of faith and practice” by believing in our Lord Jesus Christ, I cannot LOGICALLY then turn around and say that the Bible is in error at some point where it may fit my education. Though, there can be “bibles” that are in error (as seen in difference such as Acts 8:37 between the NLT and the KJV). So, it I accept that the Bible is inerrent, I must know and believe 100% that Bible I find to be free from man’s ever changing (“progressive”) education (textual criticism based on math of oldest and majority of MSS). Once I have actually found that perfect Bible I can accept it as my final authority. Right? (If I accept it for salvation not of my self, it is a gift of God, I would be a fool to do less than that.) Now: “What it says goes”, right?
      The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalm 12:6-7)
      What is the common name for the Bible? “God’s word”, right? You follow me? I’ve ment not to degrade you. Thank you for serving, sir.
      Please watch this video with Hovind for more on circular reasoning in the “fossil reccord”. Also see Patton’s.

      1. Okay, that is a better answer. We’re getting there!

        I don’t expect you to believe there is error in the Bible. I understand that you believe it to be the Word of God, free of error. My question is, what led you to believe that?

        We’re also talking about a sequence here so the Constitution analogy doesn’t hold up. The Constitution is the framework of our government and is a human construct. Also, by its own design, it can be amended or even abolished. This is not the case for the Bible.

        So I ask again, what led you to accept that the Bible is the error-free Word of God? Saying that the Bible made you believe that is like saying I believe that unicorns are real because I read a book about unicorns one time. That isn’t logic and is, in fact, intellectually unsound.

        Also, I don’t think you understand how evolution works. With that said, scientists do not use singular methods for dating. There is nothing circular about the evidence.

      2. Where exactly are you trying to take me?


        The constitution can be amended and discarded, but I don’t need it to line up 100% with the Bible, it is simply an example of a final authority: a place where “the buck stops”. It is still my final authority no matter who wrote it, as a dumb Christian. But, if God wrote it, then it is EVERYONE’s, against which they have rebelled. Get it?

        Buddy, how did you come to believe in evolutionism? Did you see one walk by, or did you read about it and became convinced? Remember: I accepted the part about Jesus dying for my sins as God in the flesh, that does not mean that I only believe the 4 Gospels. I also believed at my conversion that there was a Noah’s Ark. I believed the Bible account and the necessary portion had to do with my eternal destination. So, I believe(d) the Bible is free of error and the word of God BECAUSE I believed, and there is no reason I’ve seen to doubt and pleanty of evidence to support it’s account of history, preservation, and inspiration.

        What exactly do you think paleontologists find the date for fossils and rocks with? Quit being blind and watch the Patton vidio in The ARMORY. I cannot keep answering you forever!

        Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men….The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:2-7, 9)

      3. I didn’t “come to believe in [evolution].” I had to correct your word there because there is no “evolutionism.” That’s just a word people who don’t understand science use to protect themselves and stay in their bubble.

        Evolution is, quite simply, the best explanation we currently have for the species of plants and animals that exist on Earth. It is overwhelmingly supported by the PhD researchers who study plants and animals and routinely rejected by supernatural dogmatists…that is, armchair Internet rangers who, as I said before, simply don’t understand science.

        There is a mountain of evidence that supports the theory. We understand evolution better than we understand gravity. Your rejection of science doesn’t negate the truth of the research any more than if you chose to believe Asia isn’t a continent.

        “Where exactly are you trying to take me?”

        I am not trying to take you anywhere. I am trying to ask you to answer a simple question. I think we’re getting closer to an answer…finally.


        Okay, great. So, what evidences led you to be a Christian in the first place?

      4. I’m not trying to protect myself by subtlly shading words, guy. Honestly. What converted you to evolutionism?

        Do you fully understand the theory of evolution. Do you know the name of anyone that does?

        I think I have seen the word “mountian” describe the evidence behind evolutionism (becuse it is based on faith in uniformity, accretion, spontaneous generation, benefitial mutations or punctuated equilibrium, etc.). What is the title of one of the books that lead you to this belief in scientists?

        We know more about what is in space than what is in our own ocians, but that dose not mean that be know ayything about how coral “evolved” or even kept alive among all it’s fellows slowly turning into fish or that we know how the stars formed from hydrogen and helium.

        What “evidence” led you to your initial faith in Christianity. I started with faith as a little child and have never seen real evidence against it or a close substitute for Bible Christianity. Buddy, is there a God? is he described in a published volume on earth?

        And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. (Deuteronomy 32:20)

      5. “What converted you to evolutionism?”

        I didn’t “convert.” It’s not a religion or dogma. I simply weighed the evidence against the hypothesis.

        “Do you fully understand the theory of evolution[?]”


        “Do you know the name of anyone that does?”


        “What is the title of one of the books that lead you to this belief in scientists?”

        No single book. More of a concept. Scientists are the ones who admit they do not know the answer to a question and set out to study evidence to reach an answer. People of faith think they have the answers already.

        But they don’t. How do I know? Because I don’t have the answers and you do not possess mental faculties that I do not.

        “What “evidence” led you to your initial faith in Christianity. ”

        None. I was born into it. I went to church twice a week from birth until about age 20. Then I attended a few times a month until about 25. When I considered competing evidence, the answer was clear: apostasy is my path.

        “I started with faith as a little child and have never seen real evidence against it or a close substitute for Bible Christianity. ”

        I, too, started as a child. I also have not seen much evidence against it but I also have seen very little for it. The world functions precisely as we should expect it to in the absence of a god. This, in my opinion, is simple and straightforward evidence that god does not exist, at least as he is described in the Bible. A god may very well exist but it appears he is not concerned with the affairs of mankind. Again, just drawing logical conclusions based on the information I can observe.

        “Buddy, is there a God?”

        Probably not.

        “Is he described in a published volume on earth?”

        You mean, does the Bible discuss god? Well, yeah, sure. But I can show you dozens of ancient volumes that discuss gods and goddesses. The volumes’ existence doesn’t prove the gods’ existence. Unless you believe in Horus the Sun God too.

      6. So now you believe evolution, right?
        I cannot respond now; I would, but I must go to class. I havn’t even read the whole thing yet.
        I’ll get back to it tomorrow.

        In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

        Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. (Galatians 6:7)

      7. O. K. Is is possible for anyone to fully understand this theory and is it impossible for any given person to, in your oppinion?
        Please, I asked for the title of one of the books that you said you read that convinced you to believing evolutionism.
        So then, you never had a conversion to begin with. Wow, 20. Name one of the competing evidences, maybe even the chief one. Doesn’t seem then that you are the type of person who would have had the arguments against evolutionism in the first place. Maybe you could learn something from Dr. Hovind after all.
        You should have been looking for pro-Bible evidence then. That’s what I’ve been doing for years.
        What do you mean by “precisely as we should expect it to in the absence of a god”? Does that mean that scientists have explained how everything arrose due to observed processes? Has no one ever touched on an invisible world around us (scrying, necromancy, levetation, medians, etc.)?
        No. If there is a textbook God, is there a book that I can look at that is his, in your oppinion. What should such a book look like? Something profound? Manythings, not hidden, but of not redily noticible characteristic and extriem complexity? This is given: Divine authorship.
        Sure, the Bible disgusses a god if there is no real God behind it. I’m asking if you think there is a Creator. Please watch this and tell me what you think:

        He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. (Proverbs 18:13)

        Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account: (Ecclesiastes 7:27)

        The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason. (Proverbs 26:16)

        Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

        The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. (Psalm 9:17)

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